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1:15 pm - Test Packages

Lesson 9 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

1:15 pm - Test Packages

Lesson 9 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

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Lesson Info

9. 1:15 pm - Test Packages

Next Lesson: 1:30 pm - Casting


Class Trailer

Day 1


9:00 am - Introduction


9:15 am - The Model Agent


9:45 am - The Model Go-See


10:00 am - Making a Team


10:45 am - Your First Model Test


11:15 am - Testing Q&A


11:30 am - The Value of Testing


1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers


1:15 pm - Test Packages


1:30 pm - Casting


1:45 pm - Booking Terms


2:00 pm - Photographer as Team Director


2:45 pm - Conditions on a Shoot


3:00 pm - Student Casting Session: First Student


3:15 pm - Student Casting Session: Second Student


Day 2


9:00 am - Shoot: Rooftop Catalog


9:15 am - Student Shoot: Dave, Rooftop Catalog


9:45 am - Student Shoot: Agnes, Rooftop Catalog


10:30 am - Connecting with Models


10:45 am - Morning Q&A


11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images


11:30 am - Challenges


11:45 am - Assisting


1:00 pm -Shoot: Jewelry with Yoanna


1:30 pm - Student Shoot: Kumi, Jewelry Shoot


2:00 pm - Student Shoot: Todd, Jewelry Shoot


2:30 pm - Shoot: Matthew Working with New Models


3:00 pm - Personal Projects


3:15 pm - Standing Out


Day 3


9:00 am - Working with Multiple Models


10:30 am - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:15 am - Student Shoot: Next Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:45 am - Benetton Shoot Q&A


1:00 pm - Shoot: Karaoke


1:15 pm - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Karaoke


1:45 pm - Student Shoot: Second Two Students, Karaoke


2:00 pm - Discussion of the Shoot and Matthew Shooting


2:15 pm - Student Shoot: Second Round of Karaoke


3:15 pm - Your Life Inspires Your Work


Lesson Info

1:15 pm - Test Packages

Let's say I come in and I have my book full off pictures ok? And maybe I've been working in a certain market and I want to try a different market or I'm moving and that markets like not digging the pictures I brought over there to high fashion or they're too commercial or whatever it is I am going to commission you as a photographer on the agency has given me a list or recommended hey you've got to shoot with this person they're in town now and I'm going to set it up I'm expecting to have the agency most likely pay for it and come out of my next paycheck and you guys will figure out that agreement it's not the models job that day to shop with six hundred dollars you know, pulling out of her pocket you know? I'm not gonna have a receipt I'm not gonna have like any sort of now if if the agency is saying you know what? We're not going to cover this when we want you to do it yourself that you have to set a pre payment before a lot of times because models especially with tests they feel lik...

e, oh, I really don't have to go to that I'll just whatever cancel and re book a best thing for you is to communicate that if this is going to be canceled they've already made a thirty percent deposit through paypal if you're running out of studio or location or whatever, or you're hiring a team already, that models given you thirty percent of what the shoot was, certificates canceled and she flakes out, you've at least made something from that day if, you know, I painted out of pocket, which is very rare normally agency will set it up, then you know, we'll have already dealt with that before. How that's going to get to you? Okay, best thing is communicating what you get out of the test if I were to let's say, come tio agency a new agency, and they said you every girl shoots with this photographer now you're working in l a for the next three months, this is who you we want you to have pictures from, and I would expect a package of some sort, and normally what? My experiences, every package is very different there's no set package, it would be anywhere from what matthew was saying from three hundred fifty dollars, to I'd say about eight hundred two, maybe a thousand, but that would be really an amazing style or lots of looks okay? And what I would expect from a shoot as a model is that you're already going to be providing the hair and makeup, and if you're not, you have to tell me and then that would be an additional one hundred fifty dollars from your set rate let's say you is the photographer charging three hundred fifty you need to communicate if you want your hair makeup to be there it's going to be one hundred fifty dollars extra if you're not going to be providing your clothing, you need to pay the stylist one hundred dollars on dh then you would hopefully understand the agency wants you to be shooting the girl on location if we're trying to push you're more of a lifestyle direction or studio directions so that I already know and they're communicating what I need to bring for that day I've been on I mean, I don't really test that much anymore unless I'm doing something artistic or photographers really awesome and was asked and communicate with ethnicity we'd like to book you want to find, but as a model I don't want to come in that day feeling that you don't have time to finish our test that your overbooking models you know I'm investing six hundred dollars to work with you okay? We've got three hours I've got amanda coming in right at two o'clock because already it feels like oh, maybe he doesn't think I'm as attractive as a manned or being rushed you know, give the girls your day and the same for the model the model should be giving you their full day and hoping to get something awesome out of it and usable for sure on dh you know then I don't know there any questions I'm glad you talked about that thing about the time element I heard about girls going in it's like a factory machine yeah like you know, three hours of testing this person is going to set person happened that talk for I know is trying to make money not so concerned about making art are making that girl because if I'm investing five, six hundred dollars in the agency's set me up it's happened but four okay, well, we gotta hurry and you're being shoved and pushing every direction you know the makeup artist is rushing he's got a four a girl coming four o'clock he wants to get her before the sunrise. What if I wanted to be the girl before the sunrise? What if I want to be the one with that lighting? Hello? You know, I want to think that in a zoo model coming in that you would be excited to work with me even if here I've commissioned from the agency. Ok, maybe you don't the dark haired girls or the blonde girls or the curvy girl or the high fashion girl, but I think it's important for a photographer to let the girl know that you're giving her your time because she is paying you on dh that you're in some way happy that she's there because then already I can relax and start getting into it, and it'll be a much happier day. Absolutely so, I guess a couple questions, probably for her from our in studio audience or from online? Yes, you said he hoped it hope to get something awesome out of the task that how much you tend to get that's awesome. Well, you know, this is really interesting because let's say, for instance, I commission now we're talking about a pay test artistic? I mean, I shouldn't really come in with a lot of expectation. I understand, as an artist coming into, I'm going to try to do my best that day I'm going to work with the team and whatever comes out of it is great. Also two I can expect if I'm not paying you. When are my pictures going to be ready? Have you made your selections? I can't be calling you texting you? How did they look today? When can you have those for me? I'm looking to get signed pretty soon. Can you start editing those now? Once you come up with the trade agreement I as a model cannot be you know dictating what goes on now if I've commissioned you and I need those because let's say there's clients in europe that need to see my legs or my hips or need to see you want a fresher she's got way too much editorial going on in her book or way too much this then I'm expecting and hoping that there's going to be at least one frame of my face and of my full body because this happened before where a test they were shooting way too much of you know but say the hip up and it wasn't getting my leg and the agency said we don't see your legs so you also need to be thinking how can I show this girl's body off how can I show show this girl's natural beauty off I'm hoping to get at least a couple looks from every style of that day aa lot of times if you start progressing with the style or you start building on that hair makeup because that makeup artist that day loves the look of the girl and they just want to try something I really need you guys got to see this already guarantee they just is gonna be like we like the first two looks that you guys started with the last three were getting a little too style sorry we're only going to use one and then already you killed the test so it's it's just it comes with time and experience and you'll know and it's just feedback from the agencies and on and seeing what images made the girls books and why, you know, maybe the model could come back and the more likely we like, thank you so much. All of my images made it from our task or the only ones that made it with this, but it's ok, I'm going to use them for something else, or they're going to put it in my file so and here's the other side of that. So this is coming from the agent of what they're looking for. This is almost practice for you for when you get a client, because what the agents asking for is the easy part when you get a client it's times a thousand and then more citations a lot more pressure. So starting out this way by getting an eight or going with the modeling agency and find out what their needs are is great practice for when you start shooting jobs. Absolutely, because the booker and the agents are working with the commercial clients are working with the campaign people, they know what they want, they know what they look for when they're looking at girls books, and if you're sending out a book let's, say my book, a super week it's not organized and my booker sends it out to a major company overseas guarantee they're not gonna want to see that book again. Even if it's improved over a year, they're gonna be like I already saw her, okay? Really fine, we'll see it. No, the stronger your work for a photographer better for the girl on dh you khun, start getting choosier, you know, as test photographers, you know, I'm only going to be accepting girls through this season. I'm booked for campaigns now, or I'm on ly shooting tests once a month, or I'm only shooting the style of girl. Now I've heard that before, you know they love you, but they're really going for swedes thiss this month and you know they're not looking to test that because you whatever, but that comes with time and experience and credibility. I'd say agencies get thrilled when you make one of their girls look amazing. They're going to promote you in every direction they're going to tell all the girls, girls, you know, you wrote. Girls, you've got to get with the sky. I'm going to set you up and and the girls get excited and then, you know, it could grow from their way have so much to go over. Well, talk about casting a little bit now and do have first take some questions first on the internet before ever born okay? All right, I know this I'm dying to ask her a question, so I'll hold off that way, okay? We want people are asking for more specific answers. Police henry would like to know how many shots specifically number of shots go to model jeremy and adam barton would like to know how many shots go to the agency and also photographic ce miami would like to know. Does the photographer provide anything else in the chute like cds or prints? Sure for anything like, ok, so everyone's very different as far as what the photographer will offer the girl, the best scenario would be that you've got four to six looks okay, because sometimes you might shoot a look and it does not work out at all, and you don't even I want to present that look to the model or the agent it's much better to fall back and just do we're not six looks versus for okay. What will happen to find looks now I mean looks meaning like it could be a beauty look ok maybe you're just doing this for the girl and then you move into a denim in a men's top or you're moving into a fitted dress or you're moving into you're trying to keep a theme with the girl you don't want to get too carried away with styling it's got a kind of run is if you're telling a story about the girl is what I feel is the best scenario and what works the best now let's say you do four looks most likely you're going to send over a huge gallery okay ah you're going crop out you know the girl's eyes were closed or the lighting wasn't on point on a certain thing or there was a cloud and it didn't really work for that whatever it is I don't know how you guys cut out what you d'oh not there but he would send over a gallery sometimes to the model are mostly just to the agency it depends okay you'll know what is expected of you and from each of those looks you should be offering anywhere from three to five images that are perfectly ready to go and retouched ok either the agent makes the selection or the model make a selection and when I mean retouched making the girl look the best she can but at the same time making her look like she's not changing her nose, not changing her ears, not changing something her height I liquefied to death and stretched out to look like a giraffe I didn't need that of course I would love to have my waist taken it I mean, who doesn't but the same time don't put that expectation that I have to come into the agency three weeks later with the twenty inch waist because they're going to think something happened to me um you know it's it's tweaking its tweaking making the girl looked the best if a top is pushing up her breasts too much making the breasts look a little bit more natural a little more get realistic and then from those three to five images then the agency will then narrow down even more they'll probably get into a big room or get a couple of three bookers and decide hey, we've got you want his test back? What are you guys feeling? What do you guys thinking? Where should we be putting these images in her book? And then they'll decide all of that and it'll run either like a story or they might only use if some of the looks just didn't work, they might ask you to reshoot it or they just might work with what you've given them and then put that in her book and mix it up with the editorials or any campaigns that she shot but you definitely giving options is important yes way spoke earlier whenever way test shoot quite often will first whatever agency requires for the model on sometimes photographer would like to do something creative being yeah, that needs to be communicated because it's that's a great thing that matthew was but of course when you're talking about matthew, I'm coming to test with matthew I want him to do something creative me as a model because me as an artist as well I x respect his work I want to do something, but if a girl is commissioning you as a test photographer through an agency or hopes portfolio she might not want to stick around and have butterflies put on her face and have bees put into her hair and, you know, wearing a cape and doing all this crazy kooky stuff because she's paying you and she feels like now are you taking advantage of me or there's been no communication? She might say all I have of course I would love to do that, but you know not a ten times miles not quite stick around do something cookie if she's been doing it for a while because should not be able to use it now if you are the model depends exactly, but if you're if you're doing something that day and there's no pay involved, ok there's no pay involved it's free game if you've gotten that girl from an agency and you say I want to work with so and so it's awesome for us a photographer's say like thank you so much spending the day do you need something before you leave for your book or before we start? You need something and you could do whatever you want with that girl that day she should know coming in it's not about her it's about everyone else's expectations for that day for that test it's about your vision this is not something that she's been commissioned by the agency paying you okay, so it's free gains you can have fun with her do tons of makeup do artistic and she should just you know know that coming in I have never come in to a trade are too sick ever and said I got to get out of here I need to leave I want to go to the gym I've got something else I've got to do I just can't be here right now I mean already she's put an expectation on the day and also for your makeup arson hairstylist how hard is it here I am is a model experience doing this forever and you had to make a part I gotta be down here by one o'clock and I hurry up, get her maid and then I've got to leave my old dish not like me to show I want to be here, so trying, you know, if you can book a full day to be creative, why not on do as much as you can that day with the model and tell them you know, we're gonna have a lot of fun today they're already saying, why can't I have to leave by three, then find another day to do it or expressed in them that you're expecting to dio six to ten blokes or whatever, or that doesn't work? But, you know, I think it's fun to do trades and it's fun to be artistic and it's fun to be seen a certain a different way, but you know that when you're not getting paid and its trade, then it's totally different from them when I'm coming to you, the agency wants something very specific for specific clients, and I need that for my book and I'm paying you, then I may or may not want to stick around to do something artistic you could say to me, you know what? I loved working with you? I want to do something awesome with you. This has happened and when can we set something up? I'm going to get a team together and I'm going to shoot you the way I want to shoot you great do that and have a comeback in so this is not only with this this goes back against toe setting the pace for the days and learning how to be the director because it's not just with models, it could be with celebrities if you're if you're shooting a ceo of a fortune five hundred company uh, them less time than anybody it's the same thing, so you learn how to dictate the day and make the situation make the chute where it's so comfortable with people want to stay. I shoot oprah lot and this woman is the business one on the planet, and sometimes I might get fifteen minutes to shoot her, so I'm doing into the situation, thinking, how can I get her to stay longer and get more shots? And I know if I'm making a very comfortable situation where she setting a ball she's that when I leave, they are pulled her out of there, so I've learned through time to make my shoots all my shoots, shooting for model or celebrity, whomever to make it so comfortable where they don't want to go that's part your challenge to make it a very comfortable situation so you can get all your shots for the agent and make it whether you feel like they want to stay and hang out because that's part of the process for me, I like making where people want to like nothing that hope I've got to be here that's what's all go ahead but do you have assuming it's a free trade tests shoot do you have to communicate it to the booker or is a communication between the model and the photo booth before they find I think it's good to communicate to the booker or to the girl on you need to let them know now there's so much social media going on right now I get influx of facebook messages or e mails from my website you want I want to work with you and do something well I mean already I'm put in the position we're ok your work is great maybe I do want to work with you I'm gonna have to pass it along to agency I have looked things on my own and even though it's for trade and artistic and then the agency got really annoyed because for them they're thinking what if they sold these images and what if they're you know using it for this or what if what if they don't choose the right pictures and then they make you look really horrible or whatever? I mean they have their reasons but it's best to just handle it with the booker if you can or be just communicating with the model what your expectation is of that day of her time of the makeup artists time of the hairstyle stylist because a lot of times, young girls won't know that you wanted to use her for a full day for her full day might be five hours, you know, so but that didn't include, you know, she didn't know that your five hours she thought that was hair makeup included time and all that. Now you need to communicate what your expectations are the girl when you're booking her, especially for a trade. So it's gonna say, I know we've got a ton to get teo, you wanna? We have so many more questions for you, but folks remember that we just spent two days with you wanna and go hearing everything about modeling from her, so be sure to check out that course if you have not already that's the modeling one o one court absolutely is speaking of which I know what people heard her talk about david she's referring to the model booker from from her segment as well so you can find out more about that and you are a segment on being a model and a lot of good information from tacos as well. And if you want to hear an agent talking to you directly, it's all in her class, talking about how to work models, howard photographers and what they look for when they're looking for a test photographer.

Class Materials

bonus material with purchase

MJS creativeLIVE Keynote Slides.pdf

Ratings and Reviews

a Creativelive Student

This was more of a collaborative course with Matthew Jordan Smith and Yoanna House, and it is brilliant. I just finished watching this for a few hours straight. I own several Creative Live courses and this is definitely in my Top 3. Matthew's teaching style is so kind but to the point and informative. That's the kind of photographer I aim to be. He puts forth his knowledge here in a way that totally encouraged everyone involved. I loved Yoanna as well. She was very direct but friendly as well. I loved watching her direct the budding models and her experience showed quite well. This part is for John, the guy who commented on June 2017. I completely disagree with you that there were too many questions and that other people were talking much more than Matthew, and that that was a negative. Matthew's whole point was not just to get straight to shooting but to talk a bit about interacting with people in general. This wasn't just about technical stuff; this was about forming that connection between photographer and model/subject. This was as much psychology as it was about actual shooting, and I absolutely loved that. So I 100% strongly disagree with you as this is one of Creative Live's BEST courses that I've seen thus far. Thanks a ton, Matthew and Yoanna, and thanks so much again, Creative Live (I'm a huge fan of you guys!).

a Creativelive Student

So amazing !! Bought this and Lara jade Fashion Workshop and the 2 compliment each other really well. If you're interested in fashion photography these 2 courses are so inspiring. I Love the Matthews passion for the creative process, its inspiring and informative.

Student Work