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11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images

Lesson 21 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images

Lesson 21 from: Working with Models

Matthew Jordan Smith, Yoanna House

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Lesson Info

21. 11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images


Class Trailer

Day 1


9:00 am - Introduction


9:15 am - The Model Agent


9:45 am - The Model Go-See


10:00 am - Making a Team


10:45 am - Your First Model Test


11:15 am - Testing Q&A


11:30 am - The Value of Testing


1:00 pm - Expectations of Models and Photographers


1:15 pm - Test Packages


1:30 pm - Casting


1:45 pm - Booking Terms


2:00 pm - Photographer as Team Director


2:45 pm - Conditions on a Shoot


3:00 pm - Student Casting Session: First Student


3:15 pm - Student Casting Session: Second Student


Day 2


9:00 am - Shoot: Rooftop Catalog


9:15 am - Student Shoot: Dave, Rooftop Catalog


9:45 am - Student Shoot: Agnes, Rooftop Catalog


10:30 am - Connecting with Models


10:45 am - Morning Q&A


11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images


11:30 am - Challenges


11:45 am - Assisting


1:00 pm -Shoot: Jewelry with Yoanna


1:30 pm - Student Shoot: Kumi, Jewelry Shoot


2:00 pm - Student Shoot: Todd, Jewelry Shoot


2:30 pm - Shoot: Matthew Working with New Models


3:00 pm - Personal Projects


3:15 pm - Standing Out


Day 3


9:00 am - Working with Multiple Models


10:30 am - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:15 am - Student Shoot: Next Two Students, Benetton Ad


11:45 am - Benetton Shoot Q&A


1:00 pm - Shoot: Karaoke


1:15 pm - Student Shoot: First Two Students, Karaoke


1:45 pm - Student Shoot: Second Two Students, Karaoke


2:00 pm - Discussion of the Shoot and Matthew Shooting


2:15 pm - Student Shoot: Second Round of Karaoke


3:15 pm - Your Life Inspires Your Work


Lesson Info

11:00 am - Reviewing Rooftop Images

So here we have with rave in and the first time just hurt and her face you see that she's not really comfortable yet and she's thinking a lot I feel she's thinking a lot about her polls and they look dead in her face it just looks dead she's thinking about modeling so then we start talking to him or and hopefully we'll see a change but you still like thinking about what it is to be a model doing a polls and the face stays the same you know if you change your body her face is the same in every image then he's not talking to her we'll get it wasn't just soon where she comes alive that's getting a little better so matthew speaking of you seeing her face change I have a couple questions in that um one from ace and spade who says how do you loosen up a model that's tenser stiff I know we've talked about this before for example like first time models that are shy and then michael smith in the chat room asked can you expand your description of getting the model relaxed what are some great wor...

ds or phrases you used to get them out of relaxed uh I think will be different each model for sure way have girls who are who are new they're nervous and on top of that they on camera which makes them even amplified her nervousness to get a girl comfortable music is a big hill we can't use music now doing the show, but music for me on a shoot is, I think the most important thing to relax people and it's not just of models, this with celebrities it's with a ceo, it works left and right, so I put a lot of time and effort into getting the right music on every shoot is a matter of fact, I'll have music for the morning, while the doing hair and makeup I'll have music for the shoot. I have my assistance change the volume of the music as we shoot that is right, the single most important thing and helping people come become comfortable having great music and use the music. Take them on a on a ride. Sometimes I have music old music from like you play it at a coat karaoke bar, take them back somewhere else. It just depends. Music is a huge help and making people comfortable that's a good question and it starts way before they start shooting. If I have music is just one of those small area, I have it in the makeup area, so they hearing it as they're getting made up, it helps him get relaxed and become part of the shoot. That's by the most important thing I think on a shoot having great music it changes everything I want to get the places where she was comfortable there was a place where she changed and I won't go back also like you see the arm stays the same for a lot she's thinking about images in her head that she's seen for what a mall should be that's not the reality now she started going to get there and relax but takes all those images to find get to a place where you're getting a decent the image that she goes back he falls back into her habit that's better that's why when our best shots it takes a minute to find her image but you got to shoot through all the other stuff and communicate what you want if you're not getting it just don't keep shooting, stop and go and talk to her do you get her to a place where you're getting the great shots and it takes time so don't give yourself that's why also if you're testing brand new models, don't schedule four girls in a day and give yourself two hours issue always girls for tests because you're giving yourself the time to mode these girls and pull it out if you're thinking about just doing pay tests in terms of making money, you're doing a disservice to yourself and to the model it should not be a factory line we're just having girls come in showing them going to the next girl need time to work each person and personalities were all different one girl could be ready shoot in fifteen minutes and get some great shots another girl it might take take two hours for her to come finally let go of whatever she has in her mind of her image of what a model is and become a real model it takes time and every body's different what works for one girl won't work for another girl or one guy will work for another guy when it comes to experience the more you do it the better you get and even this image here we are prying fifteen months into shooting where she's five more relaxed finally beginning she was had this idea what a model was being a polls and doing these these standard poses we see all the time they let all that stuff go you'll get a better shot specifically matthew are you looking for when you're analyzing this image eso whether it worked or not is it her face most is it her the tension is it? What is it that your family and for the most is energy a positive into that erica relate to it's not looking for always a skirt this way is the arm this way that stuff doesn't matter it's the energy that she exudes that's powerful that's the most important element you should give me the energy I want to make this a successful shot and as I said, it may go back again as I ended, I usually will go through this fast until I find it's gonna make me stop don't work for you what doesn't work about a lot that don't work because I'm trying to find that's probably one of my hate ones right away and I'm using light right now pi put a six on it to me give it a read cold mr goto that works on this one or not yeah, I label it rid is my own personal thing I label read really fast once that I like get my mouse to work my way I'll just go back to this way I want we're about that so yeah, but it's fine, I got past that I'll put a red mark anything I like really fast all these are considered trash let's go to our second model and just to ask again you're looking for energy. You you're not looking at the light on her face whether the light's perfect you're not looking at any of those things because on a job will have all the testing done and tweak it to get the lights off right? So that part should be already said I'm looking for her energy because all it's like to be fixed and post or tweaked imposed these are raw images right at the camera I'm looking for the energy because that's the most important part the client wants to see what's going to make people stop and look at the image consumers not looking for oh how's the lighting there how is what s up did he use for tacos? Do that people don't we're looking for energy that's what sales and the energy new images is what will get you work if you have a book full of images that are technically perfect, you may not work that's not important in the world it's the energy that's important? Yes, you must have great technical images but it's the energy that's more important than all the other stuff that stops for the tracks were looking to find and does that make you stop? And this is her first shoot also, so we're trying to find hope go back again her perfect shots that was interesting that shot what you're thinking as you're looking through these images like early, early on russia nervous excitement first and again as matthew kind of his coaches through that uh that our interview that personal communication you know, dialogue with the model yeah, I definitely thought those people can just settle in and then you could convey that that idea ok again we're looking for that that elegance and then try to get that mood and attitude and I'm definitely by the end, working with both caroline and ravens uh, yeah, it doesn't feel like that connection or even established felt much more comfortable shooting talking to them they were asking even it's like following through with the direction you were giving them, so they were asking further, should I do this in light of this? How does that or this look like? So they do appreciate that connection close by, and I felt like they did appreciate that putting the camera down and actually telling them, I know somebody asked the question whether the models felt like they're doing something wrong. Well, if you compliment them on what's good and then go let's go maybe in this direction or that they were I felt appreciating that I agree now there is no right or wrong in this fashion industry, there really isn't, you know, whatever works for you by found in my korea this has helped me a lot, not just in doing fashion and beauty, but doing my portrait ce in celebrity work, it's helped me tremendously when I start off in photography, my idea was just to do fashion and beauty is all I want to do, but in doing that clients end up giving me jobs to shoot celebrities they loved, the way I relate to people, it opened up other doors so now I have clients who hired me to shoot ads for wells fargo to shoot a cover of celebrity for magazine or should a diamond campaign celebrity or shoot green with models as well? I get the full gamut now, but in the beginning of my career, all I want to do was shoot fashion and beauty. Then everything else came to me based off of how I shot that work. I never had the dream of seeing celebrities. I never dreamed of it. A client approached me based on how they saw me shoot my fashion and beauty. It led to everything else. So, guys, before today, how do you feel this has helped you in your photography? Do you think it's helped you when you think the hindrance? What do you feel thiss mornings for? Well, I feel the connection of the model wass sort of like a breakthrough for me because I did tend to stand behind the camera while communicating. And I do a lot off on location shoots. So yes, you have the external noise. So I had to even I know you were also reminding me connect, connect to put the camera down. It was struggled to remember that, but I saw that, but it really I felt it. You can actually get to photo shoot faster when you connect closer so just getting up and getting closer there it's not slowing down but I think it's feeding it up and the model also gets that small break and you get mental break an artistic break us well, you can start fresh as a photographer as well it's not only for the model but for us. Well, that's true we have the question earlier smiles talking about oh do you feel it slows you down going back and forth back and forth and she gets answered that question herself I think it's great when you have that connection and you'll get better fat better images faster by doing that well that's what I feel anyway it's helped me in my career and I've been doing it now for wow what's worked for me I have good friends who feel very differently about that and we all have our own way of shooting but this works for me and I love the personal connection that I get and it's led to having long term friendships with a lot of different models who have gone on to different things like tiro, heidi klum or boards coach joe uh he's a models who I start testing with back in the old days well in the nineties and it's led to all this other stuff it's a great thing your beauty connections and relationships and careers that's, what's all about. I think for me up now have also a better awareness about that connection and not just ok. I wanted to do do a shoot. This is my constant, my idea. And I'm just gonna tell my subject to d'oh it's almost having that that communication and expressing it more directly to get that get both of us on the same side or on the same page, and empower them to be more a part of what your vision is exactly exactly. Now, this is only one element that we worked on today of the shoot, that connection with the model there a lot of the elements that go into a shoot. If you watch thea the workshop last year, you learned about making the your visuals, your diagrams, your cops to give them something to look at and relate to. But today, it's about the connection. So I'm focusing today on the connection. What? Anything else we're not talking about the lighting or the lens we use with camera use? Well, we did mention that a ninety nine, but talking about maura the connection that's what this is all about, the connect between you photographer and your subject, model bride, parent, whomever is the same thing, are sitting right now is a model. Look at me, anybody it's that connection that makes your picture saying and stand out from everybody else look at a magazine and look at the image what made you stop and look at the image of a talker may have shot a thousand images or five images we don't know all we know there's an image that has stopped us code our tracks was about that image is is it the lighting? What the care that they used all the lands of the eu's? Probably not if something special that makes you stop and look at that image if you learn how to make your images thought people they'll hire you over and over and over again, you're the special thing that special sauce on your images that's what it's all about and is that a hard thing to teach? It is because they're the lobby war very resistant to that um and it comes in time either get it or you don't get it right. Well, it's interesting there's a question from foe talk thirty three who says how much direction are giving them all regarding body positioning or she's just doing her thing and I think throughout this workshop it has been when you have a professional model, she really knows how to move it's not most photographers pose people and we're very particular about we were talking about this upstairs but it's very different when you have a professional model because she you are just capturing her movements that she's really doing herself exactly a big different you're not seeing a professional shoot for model photographer where we're telling the girl to put it on hand here and do that and lean this way we don't have that I know it happens in other segments of photography it's not part of the fashion world that may have been back in the twenties but it's a new day it was shooting the way we shot ten years ago the world has changed aged all that stuff is the past if you'll get portrait's paintings from the renaissance whatever there's an evolution and photography is an evolution as well everything changes our entire world has changed so much in the last five years are you shoot this thing that we shot five years ago listen with your father or grandfather shot are you doing the same poses that your father shot or mother shot way shouldn't be it's a new day it's time to evolve kerry's first shoot and she still stiff here and if we were doing a job where we could shoot her all day if I take all day to get her relaxed and your first images are just the woman shot you plug it in more relax after shooting her for a while that's what any models brand new same was raving it takes her a while to get comfortable but she's going to get there even there he's trying to get there that's better than even her other shots of beginning that's nice that's why when the best shots over right there here she's not she's not posing it's implied movement implied movement now what you think about that because in fashion you see that a lot it's implied energy imply movement implied attitude it's not oppose it's miss about to happen or happening it's not a stiff polls at all and is that part of what you were coaching? Teo teo get absolutely to get that point here she's going to move now and she can't think about modeling and posing she's moving and I can shoot her faster she's have time to stop in polls because it takes her a meant to get into this moment of like click click click and she follows that pattern thank you faster than that pattern I get her out of that thing of like supposing she can't think fast enough and I love that I'll get better shots. I think these europeans when you turned her around that's kind of nice do you give them emotional guidance like like give me mad or e I du it times we didn't get to take apply to this shoot by that a lot will give them like you know, an emotional attitude to get them going you know it just depends on what we're doing but at times it helps a lot depending on the shoot smiley face like smiling awas you know like what? You know what raven today she said we said oh you should smile she's like oh, I can do that like he absolutely but she's a brand new model so she's like wondering oh if I say sophisticated for her it might be you know, looking snobbish for another girl it might be looking pleasant it's just really different how we all interpret that word or those words I won't get back also just one more thing about casting because that casting part yesterday is so important because doing the casting when you're doing a job or you're meeting malls at you go see for the age of the first time this is where you find out what they're going to be like during the casting you learn is going to be a hard shoot or an easy shoot based off the energy you get from that model during the casting and this is why casting is so very important you learn how to read energy re if it's going to be a great shoot an easy shoot hard shoot based off of that casting it sets the tone and the more you do it you start seeing patterns like oh I know this girl is going to be a great shot my clients looking at the girl and how she looks, I'm looking for how she looks and the energy she can give me or the guy the casting tells you all of that, and the more you cast, the more go sees you have, the more you see it, I can meet somebody in conversation and tell their energy if their sensual if they're, you know, high in gee, if the high strong, if they're spastic, ideal all of that in that meeting and know how they're gonna photograph it's an acquired thing, the more you do it, the easier it gets, but casting will make your job easier or harder, just appearing on what you're doing, you'll learn how to start reading people and learn how their personal will photograph if you'll make a better job for you or harder job for you, it's all in the casting here, she's going back, she's voting back into her posing and a lot of girls start off like this, wanting to do a polls because I guess somewhere and, you know our make up. We were taught early on that models polls and one point they did, but it's not that so you have talked him out of that and threw it, you'll see that in small town america or main street america, you might see this polls you won't see that in the picture of involved magazine and matthew how do you talk them through it? What do you what do you say to talk them through that getting out of opposing what words you user without being critical without being critical that's a good point I don't want to cripple even say oh, you know I don't I hate this I must say you know let's try this instead just to give a different spin on it and like you know I feel like you're posing right now but I want you to pose I want you to act like you're on your way to the opera and you're having your you're having your first day were you having a third day you're very excited about I want to feel the excitement as you're on your way to meet your date give them a situation that you walk into and and act through it on a visual given a visual and also if this is a job having those visuals really help online who are asking about the scene that we're looking at here itself behind an ace and spade says for fashion photography do you want beautiful backgrounds, trees focus scenery or a simple background to accent the dress and model and go either way go either way um I would love to have had a longer lens like a three hundred lens and showed it to eight so blows everything out of focus and all you get is a pallet like a painting um that's trying to get when we couldn't get one here fast enough because that would been perfect for this shot so I could get was a one thirty five we have a brand new body by couldn't get the long list ins so I would like to have that in the perfect world but to shoot and shoot where we could shoot for the show we had to make concessions a little bit but in the perfect world on a job I would want that absolutely with regard now another question was no we're not talking specifics of how you live the shot but is natural light okay for fashion absolutely is natural like great for fashion absolutely when you want on a rooftop and you're shooting fashion you don't want the shooting in the middle of the day when this harsh light you'll get hard shadows it's hard to control so we're blocking out that hard shadow and lighting it but if you had the great situation where you have open shade and it's consistent light that is absolutely beautiful way love that look there's just so many questions you can keep going and we'll interrupt you sounds good until you are ok and what have you want so she's reverting back to posing and a lot of new girls is their comfort zone two polls so you gonna go and mohr and give direction mme or if it's a girl she's been mowing for a year she's going to a different person altogether she's uh three days into modeling she's a brand new model so this is as hard as it gets you gotta walk them through the process and she has a dances, backgrounds, he's reverting to what she knows but dancing is not modeling and I wanna walk past that point and get him to give me a great shot so giving her that scenario and often times you gotta always remind them over and over again give me that whole situation we're walking to meet that date yes it over and over again and to get him to stay there because they wouldn't give you two for like two or three frames and then revert back into modeling because that's their safe zone do they learn how to work? They revert back to this safe zone and us photographer has to walk them past that point. If you're starting to work with the models and test the new girls, the new models and you're going to the agencies to making the calls you get those first tests this will be what you get those brand new most that the agency has just signed you want to get her, you gotta learn to get a great image and make her comfortable so the inches like wow she has something there because they are testing that grows well the testing you and testing the girl to see if she has it so you gotta work harder to get her once you can shoot this girl and get a great shot and it takes work there all the other girls who are experienced and then it changes everything you get experience girl you get better shots for sure becomes of time they want teach you howto work with people and pull out a great shot models when you well be shooting that that's shoot for them they want no probably what the agency's looking exactly would you say that the agency would want close ups have body full body or like they want all of the above they'll want the close shots three quarter of the full body they want to see her as beauty they want to eat three quarter they want to you her body full it so well that you need be shooting not just one thing if you look at a magazine if you doing a story for job not just a test your shooting all those elements because when you see a spread in the magazine you'll see this figure do this you're never going to see if I could make my mouse work where I want to I come I got my you're never going to see I just want to like two images side by side any to doesn't matter there and they will see two images side by side in a magazine you open it up that are the same you looking at this exact same what you will see is this opposites that tight shot with a three quarter shot by a full body shot so you get this interest to make you look at the magazine because this visually is appealing and stops you to look at that spread this is it. So even if your portfolios which you're showing your in your ipad or your potential book, you don't want to show images that look like this together, so if issuing your entire tests where everything is full body, you can't tell a story a story is having different elements together, so that shoot her full body, shoot her tight I get in the u s she's walking I get her still, which is looking right at me by the energy of a walking right beside a tight shot of her face and get that that put those together because that's visually appealing. So as you're looking at magazines today, tonight or even right now on online, pick up a vogue magazine and go through and look at the stories toward the back of the magazine you'll see the editorial and you will see this throughout the spreads the law of opposites, the law of opposites big against small action against still it's everywhere in every magazine no matter what the subject is, could be no national geographic or vogue magazine it's the same law, and we all use it. It's. What you learned that law. You can also shoot that same way and tell stories that are compelling to pull people in, because that stops you. That doesn't. So he was my asked yesterday about if you do a test, would you should have a test for your book, showing two tests with two models it's. Hard to do that, especially if it's all like this, it is be more variety into your shooting.

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Ratings and Reviews

a Creativelive Student

This was more of a collaborative course with Matthew Jordan Smith and Yoanna House, and it is brilliant. I just finished watching this for a few hours straight. I own several Creative Live courses and this is definitely in my Top 3. Matthew's teaching style is so kind but to the point and informative. That's the kind of photographer I aim to be. He puts forth his knowledge here in a way that totally encouraged everyone involved. I loved Yoanna as well. She was very direct but friendly as well. I loved watching her direct the budding models and her experience showed quite well. This part is for John, the guy who commented on June 2017. I completely disagree with you that there were too many questions and that other people were talking much more than Matthew, and that that was a negative. Matthew's whole point was not just to get straight to shooting but to talk a bit about interacting with people in general. This wasn't just about technical stuff; this was about forming that connection between photographer and model/subject. This was as much psychology as it was about actual shooting, and I absolutely loved that. So I 100% strongly disagree with you as this is one of Creative Live's BEST courses that I've seen thus far. Thanks a ton, Matthew and Yoanna, and thanks so much again, Creative Live (I'm a huge fan of you guys!).

a Creativelive Student

So amazing !! Bought this and Lara jade Fashion Workshop and the 2 compliment each other really well. If you're interested in fashion photography these 2 courses are so inspiring. I Love the Matthews passion for the creative process, its inspiring and informative.

Student Work