Bonus: Vincent Laforet & Chase Jarvis Chat
Um any photo related questions we just like about photos for you just talk about it for ten hours and want to talk more about murman um you know, talk about whatever you want to talk about or the audience and there's a lot of questions every still got her proxy friends back there vincent from spence um he wants to know have you ever thought about making a feature film I've thought about since I was a kid um and I think cinema is one of the coolest mediums out there today. Um not sure the majority of films these days are being made to the same level as the ones you know, ten, twenty years or fifty years ago sometimes um and I am practicing my craft I have all of a year and a half to two years of experience as a filmmaker and it's going to be a long time before I feel ready to go out and make like a full you know, feature length film. My goal right now is to work on commercials as a director and dp for a few years ah, smell that ridley scott did who made blade runner and blackhawk down a...
bunch of the fantastic movies and kind of home honed my craft over the next five years or decade and whenever I feel like I'm ready to direct it's a big thing one hundred fifty by then I'll do it if the opportunity knocks you know but uh directing is you know who doesn't want to be director but you gotta have a healthy respect for what it involves man reed you know anything else from the internet series of tubes um how does the business of photography changing in emotion production will there be stills in five years? They're always there always be stills um and it was the first part of the house the business different stills vs video and the answer is just like video and film there overlapping similarities but dangerous similar it's going somewhere just fame words to describe something on dh sometimes uh if you if you're in the middle of transitioning between stills and video someone's talking about something there's that's um dangerous cross over especially relating and you cover that in your class today a little bit um that it can be a little bit confusing but yeah and the reality is is in terms of I can't help being a technical guy with that that camera looks super dark I don't know if people are seeing can't help it he's gotta look good I'll tell you a quick story about my backgrounds a photographer my father is a photographer ah and um he used to give it my my networks sidelining nice little sideline I used to give my father my thirty best slides off the end of the month my fault I'm french originally wait a week and I would go see him over the summer and I would shoot you know my thirty best slides of the month and I would hand them to him and he would uh stack ten on the left and twenty on the right and he would look at me very calmly and opened his drawer poor paris scissors out and slam the twenty slides down with his scissors right going right for them in other words destroying the images and he would say to me uh these air not in focus they're not well exposed I don't care what you want to say but if your image they're not technically good enough uh I don't want to see them do you understand me a little better now so he that took me and I'm still working away from that because secretly slip stuff and evinces drink every once in a while yeah exactly it's just that's why technique to me has always been really important because I I think that when your technique is poor it detracts from your story telling ability but you know, it took me a long time to appreciate a blurry photo and what that can do on an artistic level so how do we get there in the first place but that's a story from my background in terms of technique and where I come from and why I'm you know a little too obsessed with it whereas now I really, really enjoy a story making process a lot more, but, um, on a very quick side note, the business model for film and photography could not be more different for me, the business small, for sure, the thing that was the original question there's a lot of dangerous cross with business models, and, you know, the main big ones are in film, no one owns any other equipment, no one buys a dolly a fissure, dolly, you came in by a fisher, as far as I know, they film schools have them your rent going, you're back bucket er you can't buy a panavision lens, you rent them, and the reason is these things. They're like one of a kind. Sometimes they're not mass produced, so as a filmmaker, a director, you don't really own anything but what you have in here and in here, and as a dp, you might own your own set of, you know, zeiss primes, you know, the that cost you one hundred rand or maura at one point, but as a photographer, you tend their own all of your gear. It's, a very different business model. Wearing the good side about the film portion of not owning your own year is that there is typically budget associate id for the rental of the right gear for the job and there's, less assumptions built in that you're gonna be bringing your whole dog and pony show and its scales according to the production, better than in the client's mind its scales a lot better, um, in the commercial world for video than it does for for, uh, photography, because there's an expectation that there's going to be those line items for a fissure dolly on there, if you're coming from photography and you've been working with a client for a certain amount of time and you're gonna start showing that same client used to just show them an invoice that looked like ex now, it's going to be x, plus a whole bunch of other stuff, and so there's a lot of, uh, kind of lost in translation stuff that happens, and that is has made it difficult for a lot of photographers that I know you're trying to make the jump and kind of working through the pain process with their clients. Now, if you have the luxury, sometimes I do have this luxury, and sometimes they don't, uh just this is how much it costs, then everything's great, and you can get to go on and make your craft, but the business side of it, the relationship sign there's also ah lot of finessing it has to happen either through your agent or directly with you and the client you feel there's uh typically are very different budgets too different budget, different crews size different approach I think we covered that earlier today one of the questions I'm seeing over and over again here coming in is one was from I missed the name now but I'm a graduating student should I focus more on stills or video? What would you say to that that's a video it's a video I would say video uh still photography is and will always be my first love uh that'll never go away uh that being said I think the market is definitely, uh fast forwarding into the world of video there might be some backlash five years from now people might say, you know what? There's so much video where all those fantastic still images where all those photojournalist all those fashion photographers that you know we're so prevalent five, ten years ago where what has happened in them? I just I just did uh job recently and I have done him in the past but recently for a client but I can't talk about right now because for a campaign that you all will see shortly but stills pulled from video and uh and they look gorgeous remarkable so that doesn't bode well for those of you are hoping to hang on to that city bank job you were talking about last night just kidding uh, yeah he's just kidding uh, but but generally speaking, I would advocate in the same way that that vince has here that I and my core I'm a photographer and it has been a big transition um, to becoming a director in addition to it, I've loved it it's like there's a reinvigoration of my spirit toe learn a whole new set of I had to use a whole new set of tools, how to work with a whole new set of people um and so I've been very professionally engaged um, but at my core I still enjoy making still pictures and that has translated stylistically for me when I'm talking to typical two clients or the ad agencies, they describe the work that I do in that area as very cinematic because you're come every frame is really welcome closed, and so there are some good things that translate to it and, you know, I'm sure there's a host of bad one is well, but if I was if I had to pick one and probably choose video, hopefully you don't have to and you can really enjoy both both crafts, but and I think the reason we'd say pick it or at least learn about it is not again a judgment on which is better than the other it's more of where the mark is going I think you always you know that chase definitely always has a beat on ah what's coming up you know it's something I focus on his wells what's next you know either we're going to follow what's next I think chase and I'd like to try to think we try toe help pushed the envelope towards the direction of what we think should be next that's kind of the fun part of being in this business right now is actually taking an active role in defining what should come next in your small way and the beauty of it is you know, five years ago you had to get your hands on a quarter million dollar camera and now for a few hundred bucks you khun uh push the envelope and there's arguably it has created in a strange way backlash is the wrong word but I do have a really intense appreciation for the stills now because that's part of my personality and I think we might be very different than this vincent is a type of person he has to get in and devour every needs to really know every little nook and cranny in that lens right there and I'm mohr like crow shot flying at whatever shiny shit is in the room and and you know there's benefits and drawbacks to bo um and for me to be able to talk, go back I have a like oh, wow, this is gosh, I gotta capture everything in the picture here and it's a shift in mentality and it's a challenge bouncing back and forth, which is the challenge that I love um and it kinda keeps it interesting, but I agree with what you said also about trying to be forward thinking on dumb not to the point that you're sacrificing what's happening right now but uh in a fun keep it interesting and try and keep it light I mean, we're not changing the world usually we're not um uh curing cancer uh if you can make a beautiful documentary film, you absolutely can um I haven't made a beautiful documentary film, so I'm not I'm trying to be realistic about what it is I'm doing maybe some questions from the tube from the series of tubes says our amelia dowd says um for someone wanting to buy new gear, what would you suggest as the top five photographic purchases? Considering you already had the basics body prime lands and a bag that's everything I say save your money yes save your money don't you know uh gear is great and will allow you to make different images um but it's a it's a black hole that never ends and it's a vicious circle and if you have money left over and you have the prerequisite here that you need to get going to make a good image whether it's film or stills invest the rest of the money into a passion project uh and tell a story uh or document something or make an experiment of visual experiment of some kind I think it's a much better way being reverie for me I was um I could've bought one or two lenses or made one big lens and uh I wouldn't be sitting here today it's the best uh you know, a little bit of money that I spent a lot of money on when you buy thamer equipment you know, five thousand is just you know, unfortunately a drop in the bucket it's one camera body so I could have had one more camera body uh two years ago or I could have shot reverie over the weekend with some friends and I know frankly that's a lesson I learned from chase um I told them you know, right after I shot reverie that the only reason that I shot reverie uh was because I'd seen him talk about how he don't if you still do it once a year we'll gather some friends together you see a lot more than once a year there's a lot more than that's awesome we'll gather some friends people he wants to work with and dig into his own pocket and not work for a client just work for himself what he wants how he wants it pushed the envelope and be completely free to do what he wants and I heard him tell me that in person and I was just like lunch I'm gonna paint the scene it's it's great place um uh just try remember the street in soho and it was one vince's living in new york and I am in new york quite a bit s o we connect whenever I can and where he can because their schedules usually don't coincide it was summer day sitting still italian place you know great breeze going through here and he says I can't believe you spent your own money on this stuff and I said clients afraid clients pay and I said some stuff I feel like I am because I have good clients and uh solid business that's why may hold that takes the money and put it into some projects that I want to shoot because if you're just so pretentious thatyou on lee take the world's most perfect jobs they're gonna be incredibly disappointed when the world's most perfect job don't come to you but you have to have to create something that looks and smells and feels like the things that you want to create such that you'll get hired for that in the future and so I would always take some money and throw out of production and uh and I think by the end of lunch way uh possibly I wasn't there I don't remember me neither um but I remember that key conversations that was a very big influence for me because when reverie you know the opportunity uh came I just jumped headfirst into it never looked back and you know, I think it's really important to realize that as a photojournalist editors will see your eye and say, you know, I love to see what chase will do with this story I like his style I like his I I like the way he did this last story and I'd like to see what happens when he's sent on this other simon has never done before that's editorial world in the commercial world they tended not really want take risks it's a c y a world where they say I like chases portfolio I like that shot he shot on page six chase can you do that again for me for this big client and the problem with the commercial world is people don't come to you saying I like your eye unless you're really really, really good could you try some just go make this look good they tend to come to you when you're starting off a least and say I like what you did here here's my product and I want you to do that again here with this style because it's a lot of money involved, they want to minimize risk and they want to be able to show their client look at what he's done it before she's done this before I want you that's, why I hire them look at their portfolio, it's on paper and that's why I hired this photographer um, there is not enough experimentation going on. I think the mark of a success is when you have people coming to you and saying, I'm going to roll the dice with you, I want you to go unleashed and go shoot something that's going to just knock the socks off of me in a commercial environment that is exactly right, and I've noticed it personally in my career what I was asked to shoot, and I don't know if it's the times are changing or my career is changing or involving. But even just five years ago, it was here's the car add two cars on the right trees on the left and the girls in the middle, and you might as well be a monkey there's a great layout that they've got sketched and, you know, they know everything every detail and and now, uh, for me, it's much more, uh, what do you think about this? And because of the understanding that we'll have of the world and of media and culture it's even more collaborative now then that's like what do you think about here's my problem I have a creative problem as uh I represent crest I want my teeth to be whiter how do we show that visually as opposed to what it used to be is toothbrushes in the girls left hand so on either it's a sign of a career evolving or there is some my my personally visit there's a shift in how ad agencies are thinking it's less about mccann erickson and there's the big behemoth agencies now which I still have a ton of respect for but it's a lot more a lot lighter faster um arguably more renegade on the agency sign that never has because they have experienced cut and they're having to do more with less so the creatives get involved in early earlier on the process but yeah I mean I I don't think we as society have seen this much change this fast in our history ever and has bring propelled by technology whether it's the web email ipads, ipods, iphones yes um you know, things are changing so fast that we tend to get whiplash uh and it could be very disconcerting, right? I mean, you know, twenty year photographer I never want teo do anything other than work for national geographic and time magazine I've been very fortunate enough to do both um but you know what? Ah time magazine is, you know, having a difficult time these days. Um and they let go a lot of their great staff members, photographers and writers when the economy started to, you know, collapse and who knows when I look at those people back if they were well whereas now you know ah gives moto is a site that I read more often than I read time magazine or people's blog's you know, I read his blawg and other people's belongs more often than I read newspaper. Now it's really weird to walk by the newspaper and look at it and think yesterday's, you know, and I have right now right here kind of just conceptually it's strange and that thing in and of itself has changed our jobs a bunch on the commercial side, not necessarily the finer side because both of us do that stuff too. Yes, the internet. How do you think the internet would like to know how? How do you think tablet pcs will change your your work, or or how you shoot it's it's a new ah medium to communicate with that, you know, eight by ten I think it's eight by ten ipad is a larger iphone it's a bigger tablet and it allows us I have I have no problem saying I have read more books since I got my ipad in the past two three weeks than I have in the past two years you know ah I stopped reading after awhile ah and just it stuff online and um I am not reading a lot of books on my ipad why is that now why did I stop reading for awhile? I used to read a lot when I was younger um much more a visual guy and there have been a big reader had a little dyslexia growing up on all that fun stuff so reading for me is not as much fun as watching a movie or a video but um I read now all the time and just and why you gotta ask yourself why is that it's just so easy to download ah a book to your ipad and read on read it when you're on the plane and ah these air I don't know if the ipads going to save print media it should it could uh I don't know if print media is going to be smart enough teo grasp the potential ah print media has time and time again proven they really just don't get it and I hope they do I you know people may not know I was a new york times photographer for seven years on staff and ah it was a very important day when I canceled description that was like betraying my uh my brotherhood my lineage but guess what? By the time the paper land on the morning on my front door I had read that twelve or twenty four hours before and other than seeing the images you know um I you know I've never liked the whole folding thing with the new york times on sunday you know I like the tablet much better uh and I think there's a lot more potential so much it's it's such a deeper engagement for me personally the immersion to be able to go in explore I was jesting earlier about being a crow and flying at chinese stuff that's again a more of a personality characteristic that when you said a tablet in front of me and I'm able to experience the media the way I want it rather than the way somebody in a room down the street wants me to experience it to me that is the major difference um I can explore the things the links um go down the rabbit hole so to speak in a way that I can't in a in a fixed print media environment that being said I do and so qualify I think the ipad and devices like it are going to completely revolutionise um health care uh specifically education because all of the books all the books are gonna be available all the time all the students umm I mean how many ads grew environmental stuff in dictionaries and sources environmentally it's gonna be really interesting I think uh we got to find a way to get those those devices out to the third world we have a challenge there um but that being said it's like I did a fair qualifier there I really do love picking up printed media I just was in a minute near three times this this month already every time I've come back I've left a piece of clothing in my hotel room and brought back some printed media of things that were is interesting to me inspirational so I haven't divorced myself from in any way, shape or form but you know whatever the heck that means war internet questions I love you internet well, it kind of keeps following on on what you were just talking about do you think from k b suarez are we moving toward the world of blade runner with motion billboards and just everything is video and hardly any more print yeah absolutely I mean um there's only one one entity that knows more about you than the federal government and that's google and it's not a joke I mean they google knows every single thing you've ever searched ever. So all those secret things you've searched on google aa if you know they know what you're searching for they know what you buy, what you read, what cars were look at what magazines, what pictures stay on ah and it's being tracked it's kind of scary they had the technology so that when you walk through place if you've got no f I d chip or whatever it is that you get one right back here you two and they got you and they know what who you are and what you're doing you know, it's just all technology and it's about it's about unfortunately ah I guess not unfortunately but it is unfortunate it's about selling you stuff they track what you do because they wanna be able to sell you what they think you're gonna want to buy they don't waste time and the flip side of that that were more in charge of our as our purchases in a westernized economy in a westernized world get more um as we as consumers get more buying power than the messages and the things that we see are going to get more and more taylor to us so I have to look at less things I'm not interested in which is gonna have all kinds of its own cultural problems worried about eighty d and cartoons and stuff right now when everything is tailored to us, we're gonna have if we think we're egoistic society now we're gonna have a whole hell of a lot problems um in that in the next ten years, but all right I'll give demi a break because he or she has been asking the same questions for like seven minutes straight and then he says nobody cares about the futuristic pontification questions how about practical photo video questions? I couldn't disagree more but demi has been asking for stills if you had on ly two lenses to put on my five d mark too what would they be and for video and only because I've seen this twenty times I'm going give this personal break if I had to buy two lenses for five demark too number one would definitely be a fifty one too because that really lends itself to being ah perfect cinema lens and the second one is a harder decision maybe a twenty four one four um and that's what? I would just kind of shoot everything with specifically for video just for video just riffing I was going to say I would uh not for video but for stills uh I would I would go zoom lenses I'd go to him probably uh twenty four twenty four, seventy and seventy two hundred was the mainstay lenses for kanan or nikon there you go that's the power of the internet night if you you ask your question enough times f times yeah more and you guys you know it's not just about the internet here I figured you guys probably got it you got paid to be here so yeah, you can actually I want to feel like it over yet you want to sit up here yes ah what percentage of your work do you think is still versus video now uh my answer it's it's really hard to ants to answer it is changing by the week but it's a third still only a third video only and a third still plus video is honest a breakdown of that could give you so its clients just want stills some clients just want me to shoot video some clients want to do about sam's these same seas I'm just saying you both you know setting a date I think if if the internet can hear that could you repeat the question yeah I will repeat them into it uh that is not a pterodactyl that is cooler here fully artists we love that thing that would end up in jurassic park somewhere that's right as the guys that the children joint on the transfer us rex yes um uh what was the questioning and um oh yeah okay this is this is a great question so that the question is when you're working with a client that wants both stills and motion um how do you typically go about uh capturing it you do one than the other two you both same time and it's very dependent and only hear your response to this too but it's very dependent on what it is that I'm capturing by and large people want you to shoot both at the same time because they think that the the actor or the central character is the most important thing, and the reality is ninety percent of the time they couldn't be farther apart how you'd shoot it from a still perspective and how you should intentionally the client comes again, we fear you point one camera and it wants and appoint a different camera, add it and get get it both we're gonna be saving money left and right and through this is they don't know shit the eyes this is a family show family show we're drinking beers, ok? The, um my response is generally, uh, it's it's again, I'm gonna qualify it depend with almost everything that I shoot is separate. You can if there's lighting involved definitely that's the definitive yet it doesn't happen now. It happens later. If it's naturally lit, then you're kind of in the ballpark of you could have some still action and some cinematic action happening in around one another. But I laugh a lot at the assumption that you can do them together just just set one camera. Danny, sit down when I can pick up a red and everything okay, just do the same thing you did, or even worse, a shooting at the same time, so I mean, if you're doing a sit down interview against a white seamless of an actor you might be able to get away with a locked off video camera and a locked off still camera and shoot them simultaneously and probably get away with it I would blow my brains out trying to do that right absolutely but you probably could get away with it totally the moment you actually try to become a filmmaker it's such a different world and once I want to ask me that um I just understand that they fund we don't understand mediums and that uh the difference is that a few years ago you absolutely had to have uh different lighting for stills and you had her video and different crew members and budgets and you absolutely would on a commercial gig bring uh the same michael jordan day one for video and day two for stills you would never think of doing them same day you hired different people to do it and they use different gear. What has changed is that you can now consider at least consider because of the height because the highest so cameras absolutely true shooting the same person on the same day with the same lighting with still this video that does not mean simultaneously and I keep educating clients saying I could do both for you it's not quite going take twice the amount of times sometimes make take four times the amount of time yeah sometimes it might take ah little lesson twice the amount of time it certainly doesn't take the same amount of time. It does not take the same amount of time if there's any eighty cds, it is if she's anything with d after it duly noted, but it's not the same, and you were not sent actually it's the account people that wanted to be the that way it is it's it's, the bean counters and you know they're just reacting, teo the economy wanting no or for less, you know, I understand, and the cameras can pull off some pretty incredible things, but these were not the panacea at everything he says not these are god's answer toa toa this problem? Um, they just help certain parts of it get better. It weren't one of the things that I don't wantto make sure people understand. I have a strong opinion that is everything right now. It's so experimental like I'm pontificating up here, uh, you know vince's not as much as he's reserved and quiet, but no, we're learning take said I should have another beer. You should take everything that we're saying up here with a grain of salt because we're just two guys in a fish bowl making stuff if actually and we're willing to talk about it publicly in front of a couple thousand people, but the idea of us knowing everything is couldn't be further from the truth I am just once you know you don't have to be faster than the bear in the woods you have to be faster than your friend um you know, learning this as we go just like everybody is and so well I get kind of retract some of the stuff I said about and where should know you can't do it like this, but I barely figured it out a year ago and so uh on account director on an ad agencies not certainly not going to know and just hasn't, uh underscore the idea that that's part of what's wonderful about right now and I hear someone so money so much worried conversation, so much negativity and I'm trying to dispel that with the idea that never this is the this is a very unique time in the history of the world never before have we been able to be as the creative been able to be both content creator and a distributor at the same time and any person in this audience or in that audience or god forbid that cameras on because I would look gross with the camera right next to my face on whatever norman but great uh but that anyone can be a a creator of content I'm not making a judgment about the quality of the content but that's exciting if you do choose or are able to put out good good content people will find you and find it especially do it on a repeat basis and as a another thing all of this is changing what we understood five minutes ago about us not knowing all the answers the idea that we're content producers, industry readers all this is new stuff let's let's celebrate that there's a certain element of fear but let's celebrate that and get you a beer can we help it that way? All right, well uh yes question shoot hi guys and hasn't touched on this a little already but I think I'm on a roll a couple questions on the internet into one and that is I think there's some folks who want to know how to get started maybe with clients that aren't sophisticated and how you would actually maybe build out a budget for one of these jobs and how you would sell that budget to a client who is maybe a little price sensitive I'm not touching that one with the uh the short version is that that there are no it's the wild west right now and uh, you know, if you talk to both of us have had agents either have or have had agents at different times in our careers and and uh there used to be a very, very well established methodology behind all of them and they're still some threads that continue in that vein, especially when you're working um doing the kind of jobs that we do for a living um but when I when I talk about the wild west a lot of that is under fire right now. Um the the short version part two is you need to have a belief in your work that your work is valuable there's your creative time and vision and where the media is going to appear it's gonna appear on the front page or the back cover of every major magazine periodical rack uh on online and, you know, in ten different places get paid more and if it appears in on your buddy's website you get paid less um so that's kind of your creative fee and then the production and that's all this money and stuff that it costs to make the pictures you know, assistance, wardrobe stylists, talent, travel, all that stuff and those are the fundamental building blocks of creating an estimate. I can't advise anybody in the crowd about how to win specific jobs there's all kinds of conversations that would open about undercutting and about where pricing should be and at the end of the day um the economy will hopefully take care of the people who are taking care of the industry and it won't suffer too much but generally speaking that those of the building blocks of getting noticed and like anything there they're typically all negotiable and if you have a line I recommend you have a line in san it's like you can negotiate, but at a certain point you're not going tio go beyond that because it undervalues your work or shows that they don't recognize the production you've got to be responsible uh two photographers film maybe a new way to make a living what you can't do is what photographers should not do to one another which is undercut each other, let alone go into a separate industry and undercut them um and that's going to happen to a certain degree just because people are trying to cut down on fees and expenses with these new toys uhm but the reality is, you know, we're all in this together and while photography and film are both art forms, you can never forget their businesses too and that this is the way that we've chosen to feed ourselves and our families and other people doing the same. So, um you know, the tools maybe a little bit cheaper sometimes, but I tell you, one of things I try to do personally is keep the fees the same, so maybe the tools a little less expensive for the rentals down maybe you you have a little less light ah package maybe, um you know less gizmos here there I try to keep the same amount of people working that's not always easy because it does require smaller crews at times but I try to keep the crowd if he's up there as much as I can because you are doing a significantly greater amount of work when you do both it's not just twice the amount of work I'd say it's easy three to five times more work you're doing still supposed video and you're exercising very different parts of your brain you're learning a tremendous amount to do it and uh it's not easy yes the internet is a flame of questions apparently because all of the proxies have both their handsome here actually my first question is how much longer do you want to go? I get a least have a beer love alright, wait actually and we'll ask your question yes, I like you want to do it oh that guy was looking at that were done in six, she said, so I don't know ten or fifteen minutes school all right, that sounds good I think we had a question in the room can um would you like to hand in the micro so part parlaying on that subject that you probably want to go too much farther on of pricing, getting into video, you know, back end editing, pricing for a photographer seems to be the most challenging like you know how long how much how do you charge per minute per what's that where you go from there your your your your your quote your bidding a job and they want stills and video and you know that okay? You know whatever my x dollars a day I need to get this going take me two days figure that in for video but then the editing part could be days on video you know yeah, you know you want one of harry things for me always on any commercial photography bid is where you put that, uh, retouching money you know, um you're negotiating is goingto fees you can get based on the work and retouching is a whole different part of and a big part of commercial photography these days and I'd like to try and keep that separate whenever I can still photographer and say you know you're hiring me tio produce the image or the material to go into the final composite image and the retouching is jaan bhai and other artists another company ah more and more that's depending on the temp photographer you are you bring that in house or not um but I do try to keep you know that second separated a bit same with film um is you know you're hiring me as a director or dp and or photographer to shoot the material ah either do you want me it's a question you ask your client I mean it is liver the raw footage to you um or do you want me to be involved in the edit processed through me to you know, choose the editor and be part of that you know, film is you know, we talked about earlier the production of it is I'd say ten percent the other forty percent is pre production before you ever go and walk on set and then the other fifty is the edit and the putting it together special in special effects and beer hasn't taken that much of a factor and uh it's like this whole thing is off you guys so it's not easy though because you know, we all get squeezed and say, you know what? We don't have extra money for retouching we don't have extra money for editing and you've got to say you've gotta educate your clients and say, um you've got to understand that you know, one can only do so much and this just takes time and if you don't want me to do it, you're gonna have to do it and I would much rather be involved and do it and give you the whole package but um you know, do it the other way do it for free a few times, do it for free once you'll never do it again yeah we definitely uh at at as much as possible, I try and deliver a final package not not, uh, final imagery, not necessarily the layout or anything. Video wise. Yeah, I it will fall under my direction as the director of the peace to oversee the grading, oversee the editing overseas and a lot of times I bring those people in house if it's negotiated for us to deliver the final piece um and what happens is the agency um or the eighty year senior whatever will come to my studio working me and an editor of my choices not me sitting there at the final cut but we bring in an enter and those air priced by the day early days I don't know any hourly okay, editing is per day and it's kind of like that however long it takes you one hour documentary from the footage where you want five minutes this how much it is today and yeah, and our estimates we estimate how much we think it's going to be with the claws and then it's like this is an estimate and there will be over jizz if we blow it or create direction changes or if you know if if and that's the part that's really, um that there's a certain amount of flexibility on dh then you know vincent's talk about all of us getting pinched sure, but you also anyone who seasoned in the business of susan client is going to know these things and it's not going to ask you to do things that are crazy it's only the people who really I don't understand the client side that will ask you to do things that are absurd but I try known as much of the final delivery bols possible because the difference between um the video capture and what it's gonna look like in the end could be a hundred miles it is its living around mitch scary and what you know I think the point vincent was trying to make and that I will underscore is that absolutely one hundred percent charge for that service I will never there's there's nothing that says, you know, we deliver the pictures and it's included because the part that happens afterwards there's another layer there attune ity for creativity and anywhere there's an opportunity for interpretation there's a creative mind who's on that picket build and we're not nickel and again that the clients that understand this stone perceived anything like that niggling dime ing it's the people that don't understand the think greed is take a picture and handed him a cd a compact disc after the things done you know, just it's a lot of it as he was playing education a lot of it has to do with the kind of the the client's own experience in this process, you get all types too I'm not saying I don't want to paint just a rosy picture everybody that I work with understands but try and choose clients that have a certain level of experience it's a hell of a part of the job it's a big part, but the part that happens after yeah, this question is for each of you, what is your single most enjoyable experience from photography or videography? I vincent showed me a video that he shot on his iphone of his new baby girl eating ice cream for the same time for their sake for the first time and, uh, it was beautiful, it was awesome shot with the iphone I'm not gonna answer for him, but it's it's that hard to answer that question? I mean, there's, how do you say what your favorite moment ever in, which is a favorite child chase? I mean, you know, I don't have any children but like vince's theoretical, but yeah, I mean, you try and answer that one that hurts. That idea of my daughter is one of my fair videos no has showered on iphone, and I had a thumb smudge on it with a window in the background, she's glowing, you know, um and it's a wonderful moment it's her first taste of vanilla ice cream and man and you couldn't shoot me better not because the way I shot it because of what it captured she took a little taste of it a little tongue swirling around and takes an even bigger test of a taste of it in the third one she has her face in the ice cream and then change your mom has a ninety minute spoons you turned chasing beautiful so um um you know, I mean, I think one of the ways I would answer that would be that some of my best experiences you know, been some cool place that I've been on the needle the empire state building and that's a cool personal experience to be fourteen hundred feet up above near city but the relationships and the experiences that I've had as a photographer filmmaker um and the friendships that I've made um have to be the most rewarding and I'm not even a question for me either, you know, the for me, my favorite picture is constantly evolving my favorite film my favorite lip like my favorite take like all the three seconds of videos oh, I love it and then four weeks later I have another one and three weeks later I have another favorite still that's constantly evolving for me the best parts about our job, my job, our job are the people and um I think he also said I said it right that um had to go to some of the most amazing pieces are amazing places in the world to shoot for some of the best brands and it's there's so much drama built in and around that I I would be happy to park all that and just take away the hanging out after you worked fifteen days in a row for twenty hours a day with someone that you just met at the beginning of that thing and you're sharing some some some really cool like that part of it is really, really fun the people that you get to meet a photograph yeah, wonderful inspiring people usually people in our line of work don't come to work and hate it it's out there enough that they're in it for for a reason that makes them feel good and they're you know, historically culturally they're taking a risk like its so risky to be a filmmaker, an artist and so they come to work in there pretty psyched about what it is that they're doing that is something that's immeasurable for me. J dog says vince's falling asleep was call today we're not not too far away from that I think the whole team is falling asleep up kind of respect for everyone who's paying attention to all this and like this guy sent it super hard today out there in the internet world can you and ending here in the classroom and out there. Would you guys give this guy a round of applause, please, for a second?